Can Psychedelics Help You Learn New Languages?

Podcast Highlights

The Mimic Method is the language philosophy that Idahosa came up with while learning Portugese in Brazil, back in 2010. He realised, while listening to Brazilian music, the importance of hearing and pronunciation when trying to learn a foreign language rapidly.

Now he runs the successful website which teaches language “backwards,” with pronunciation first and grammatical rules last.

Idahosa says that his passion for learning new languages comes from wanting to connect with people from different cultures. He doesn’t particularly care about language rules, but he cares about communicating with people around the world. He believes that The Mimic Method is the best way to start having conversations with people in foreign languages.

When it comes to psychedelics, Idahosa is pretty new to the scene. In college Idahosa developed a passion for freestyle rapping – and he found that smoking cannabis helped him get into the “flow” state and rhyme more fluently.

The fact that cannabis increased Idahosa’s creativity led him to investigate other psychedelics. His first LSD experience was only a few months ago, in Australia. He had a very positive experience – he describes seeing the normal rules that we all live by projected into abstractions. The problems humanity creates for itself became clearer, and living became more about nature and simplicity.

Since then, Idahosa has been microdosing once or twice a week. He reports enhancements in focus, productivity, and creativity with no downsides. You can hear the amazement in his voice as he describes his surprise at finding such an effective medicine which costs so little compared to typical pharmaceuticals.

Currently, Idahosa is investigating how set and setting can influence the psychedelic experience. He wants to discover new potential uses of psychedelics by manipulating the environments in which we take them. He hopes that, in the future, people will be able to invent new ways of using psychedelics for creative purposes.

Show Links

1. The Mimic Method – learn languages “by ear”
2. Idahosa on Twitter
3. “Stealing Fire” by Steven Kotler – how we can use psychedelics to accelerate learning and growth

Podcast Transcript

0:00:29 Paul Austin: Hello, all listeners and welcome back to the Third Wave Podcast. I'm your host, Paul Austin, and I am recording this right now from San Francisco. I'm staying near the Castro mission area and I'm in town for the Psychedelic Science Conference, which is this weekend. And I'm super excited because it is the largest gathering yet of psychedelic people, at least, in a more organized formal conference setting. And I can't wait to see what type of discussion happens over the weekend. So I'm here and you guys will be getting this on Sunday, the last day of the conference. So if you're listening to this and if you happen to be at the conference, please send me a message or an email or something like that and I'll be happy to try and find you.

0:01:15 PA: So in today's episode, we have a friend of mine who's on the guest. His name is Idahosa, Idahosa. I'll say that once more, Idahosa. When I first met Idahosa, I was living in Lisbon, Portugal, and this was in September of last year and it took me about a month to get his name correct. So it's Idahosa and Idahosa is an entrepreneur. He's 28 years old. He's originally from Philadelphia or close to Philadelphia, I believe, Harrisburg in Pennsylvania. And he runs a website called the Mimic Method, which helps students learn foreign languages quickly by improving their pronunciation and immersing themselves in sounds. And Idahosa is one of the most intelligent people that I've ever met. And he has an interesting obsession with personality types as well as psychedelics, cannabis, and other forms of altered states of consciousness in which we can access flow states to live a better life.

0:02:17 PA: So basically, in this podcast, we're going to talk to Idahosa about his experiences with cannabis and other psychedelics. How they've improved his overall life, including his freestyle rapping, increasing his motivation to learn new languages, and also helped the growth of his business. We also discuss how there really is no separation between using psychedelics for spiritual purposes and using psychedelics to help with creativity, how that is actually one and the same because life is all-inclusive anyway. And I believe that you guys are gonna learn something new from Idahosa. He's completely outside of the psychedelic space.

0:03:00 PA: He really doesn't talk to a lot of other people who do psychedelics and he has a keen ability to get to the heart of a matter in a way that makes sense. There's no bullshit with Idahosa. He is clear, he's concise, and oftentimes, he's right. And so, I think, you guys will really enjoy his insight into the role of psychedelics and creativity and consciousness.

0:03:24 PA: If you enjoy the podcast, please leave a review on iTunes and share it with a few friends. The more people who listen to this, the better. And if you enjoy the podcast, please support us on Patreon, patreon.com/thethirdwave. We are completely funded right now by what you guys are doing. And as much as I'd like to not have advertisements, so far, the response in Patreon has been fairly minimal. Which is completely fine and understandable, but I think it's good to be up front about these things. If we don't start generating some monthly donation for the Patreon page, we will likely have advertisement sooner rather than later.

0:04:02 PA: So I like to avoid that. So if you feel comfortable donating, please go to our Patreon page and help support the podcast in any way possible. It would also go towards other projects that we're working on at Third Wave. So enjoy the podcast and I will see you guys after the show.

[music]

0:04:34 PA: Let's start just... Let's talk a little bit about the Mimic Method. Can you give some background about what the Mimic Method is and what that business is for you from an entrepreneurial perspective, but also from a personal perspective, why you started it, for example?

0:04:47 Idahosa Ness: Yeah, so the Mimic Method is the language philosophy I came up with in 2010, 2011. And what we do is focus on hearing and pronunciation as the core to a person's ability to acquire a foreign language rapidly. And I came up with it while living in Brazil in 2010. I went there after graduating university to focus on Brazilian music and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and also learn Portuguese. And it was actually through focusing on these three areas that one day, I had this epiphany, it all converged. And what I realized is that, the number one thing that hold people back from learning foreign language is not being tuned in to the sound.

0:05:35 IN: So for example, number one frustration you get from people is either, I can't understand you when they speak, they talk too fast, and they blend the words together or I can't express myself fluently and confidently without stuttering and getting anxious and people ask me to repeat myself if my accent wasn't clear. So I realized that the root there for not understanding, for example, people can't understand because they can't hear. They haven't tuned their ears into the actual nuances and flow and sounds of the language. And they can't speak because they haven't physically trained their mouth to create the sounds.

0:06:09 IN: So while I was in Brazil, in Rio, training my own self after Brazilian percussion and trying to learn these rhythms, coming up with different techniques to get my own ears and hands to work with these Brazilian sounds, I had an epiphany that, "Ah, this same technique that I've been using to teach myself how to play Brazilian drums, I can use this technique to teach people how to hear and pronounce." And there's a huge gap in the market where we have the billion dollar industry of language learning and people teaching how to memorize vocabulary and how to memorize the rules of grammar and translate things. But no one really tells you how to pronounce anything. That most they'll do is [unclear speech].

0:06:46 IN: Not really moving on. So I thought it was a huge pain point, but a huge gap in the market. So I came up with this technique on how to teach pronunciation, put it into a product, put it online and that became a location independent business for me, for several years. It funded my travels. And then, in recent years, I've been more seriously and building up a team and more products and growing the ambitions and company.

0:07:14 PA: So where did your initial interest in languages come from? Like why... Can you give us some of that background? I know you lived in China for a year, right? Where you learned Chinese.

0:07:24 IN: Yeah. So my first language I learned was Spanish. So, I grew up in the US in just random... A suburban town in America. Just bored out of my mind. I was a kid and I only spoke English, and I was looking for a way to get out. I didn't really care much for my home town. So I got the opportunity to go to Mexico to study Spanish when I was 17, and that was my first time traveling abroad on my own as an adult, and it was a game-changing experience for me 'cause it was just like, wow, life in Mexico is just way better than life back home in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

0:08:02 IN: But then, that's why I learned Spanish, and just that experience of coming to a place where everyone's very alien to you. Even at the time, it's like 2006, it was the first time, for at least my memory, that immigration was the hot button issue and they were like, "These aliens are coming over here, blah blah." It was super racist against Mexicans. So, I wanted go there myself and see what was going on and, yeah, these people were the... They're very alien to me, 'cause I didn't speak their language. But, through the process of mimicking them and having conversation, they eventually transitioned from alien to human. And I can understand a Mexican just as well as I can understand you.

0:08:34 IN: And just that experience of going to a new place, seeing the world from a different perspective, different culture, and then humanizing an entire population of people, was just a really powerful experience to me when I was 17. And I was like, "Man, I gotta keep doing this." So, I went to university, studied Chinese, went to China for Study Abroad, learned Chinese there. The same kind experience of crazy Asian culture and then, once again, being able to communicate and connect with the people. Then Brazil after that, when I graduated. And since then, I've also learned to speak French and German, and I'm actually learning Italian right now, 'cause my roommate is Italian here in here Portugal.

0:09:09 IN: But yeah, that's how I got into it. And I always tell people like, I don't really care about language, per se. A lot people were really nerdy about the theory of language, the grammar of language. But for me, I've always seen language as a tool to connect to my fellow human beings around the globe. What I'm really looking for is a better understanding of people, a better understanding of culture, and language is the number one tool in my toolbox to do that.

0:09:36 PA: We've had lots of conversations before, obviously, about this. You are a very curious person and you clearly like intellectual pursuits and thinking about ideas and working on ideas, and everything. For you, at least from my perspective, my interest in travel and my interest in going to various places, it kind of coincides with also my interest in drugs. Because, I think traveling is an altered state of consciousness in a way, when you step outside of the culture that you're so used to being in, really. For you, where did your interest in substances come from? Whether that's cannabis, or alcohol, or tobacco, or even then, more recently, we've been talking about psychedelics. How has that developed over time?

0:10:20 IN: Yeah, so, I grew up a good student and knowing, but if... I was never a rule follower, but I just didn't have any interest in substances because I had only known to associate it with deadbeats at the time, and I was a pretty ambitious kid. So, I didn't really do any until I got to college and I would drink like everyone else, every once in a while, but even that I didn't really get into. I can't remember the first time I smoked weed, but I don't remember anything happening the first time. I had asthma as a kid too, so I always kind of had this phobia of smoke in my lungs. But I guess I got over it at some point, got high, and then I don't remember particularly liking it. I was a bit paranoid, and I'm like, uh, and then I fell off of it for a while and then, I guess I tried it again.

0:11:00 IN: This is a very common story, where the first time you don't feel a thing, and then the second time, you get like way too high. You take a bong hit and you're just like, "Oh screw this. This is way too much." And then later on, you do it again. And what really got me into cannabis use, was freestyle rapping. Since I was a kid, I really liked to freestyle rap, which is just rapping to a beat, improvised. It's like one of my favorite activities to do in life, because it's just... You just open your brain up to the ethos of ideas and words and language and just try to jump on these words as they come to you on the beat.

0:11:33 IN: And I noticed that when I freestyle sober, depending on my mood, it can be anywhere from okay to really crappy. But, every single time I was high on weed, I would turn into just a freestyle genius, and it was just crazy 'cause I'm like, "Man," all these words that are coming to me, A, they come to me in slow motion, like, the beat is playing and I just have so much time to think, and B, if I say a word like rhyme... I gotta do a little thing with you. What rhymes with the word "rhyme?"

0:12:03 PA: Time.

0:12:04 IN: Okay, so everyone says time, right? And what's going on is you're making a mental association between "rhyme" and "time" and so when people do a freestyle rap for the first time, they're like, "Hey, I like to make rhymes, I do it all the time," and it's the corniest rap, but everyone does it because that's what it is, right?

0:12:21 PA: Sure.

0:12:22 IN: But now, if you smoke weed and I say, "Hey, what rhymes with rhyme?" And then all of a sudden, all these other words and things are coming to your head that you didn't really think about before, like, "Oh, Clementine and serpentine and sublime," and then that's when you're freestyling like, "Hey yo, I spit these rhymes, it makes my mind so sublime, serpentine slithering around... " And then all of a sudden, you just sound way cooler. So that really got me interested in what's going on actually in my brain that's different for this creative process of coming up with freestyle raps.

0:12:55 IN: So I started researching and learning a bunch of things and, yeah, so I found that for creativity... I identify as a very creative person and I love creating things. So marijuana is something that enhances my creativity, and not just for freestyling but also generating business ideas and conversation. I've also recently discovered it for physical exercise and being more creative in my movements. And so that's what it does for me. It's a thing that expands my mind. So, for a while, the only substance I had ever done was marijuana. In fact, I don't even drink that much. So, I had a period of time where I didn't drink at all and I'd smoke weed like once a week. But I've always been frustrated with everyone else's use of marijuana, 'cause they only used it for... Like, "No, we were just smoking some weed and vegged out and watched some cartoons."

0:13:39 IN: And I didn't like that 'cause I'm like, man. When I smoke, I wanna read or talk to people about ideas or play music or freestyle or come up with some stuff. So, for me, I've always been trying to promote not recreational use, but productive use of marijuana. There's certain things you can do in this altered state more effectively than when you're sober. So, that's what led me to looking into psychedelics and the possibilities of even more creativity and different perspective with that.

0:14:06 PA: And so when you were researching what was going on when you smoke cannabis in the brain, what did you discover from that?

0:14:13 IN: Yes. So, actually there's some research... Gonna find it and send it to you. Basically, the term that they use is that marijuana flattens associational hierarchies. And what that means is, example, before I said to you was "rhyme and time." So, the brain just works through analogy and association. So, in your head, the rhyme is attached to the word time. And it's always attached there in that rhyming association. But then, you smoke weed and then this hierarchy disassembles and flattens and that all these other words get an opportunity to be linked to that.

0:14:49 IN: Now, it sounds pretty frivolous in the context of freestyling, but I actually think it's crucial to creativity in general, because ideas take the form of language in our brains. When you're thinking about what you're gonna do with your business or with your relationships or whatever, you're thinking words in your head, and when you flatten those associations, all of a sudden, you're seeing things from different angles. And this is essentially what creativity is, just making associations.

0:15:15 IN: So, what this research is saying, they have interesting kind of methodologies for testing this. Well, actually, of course, mentally, really based on my freestyle thing, which is they call semantic priming, where they tip subjects and say like, "Okay, how many words... No, how quickly can you associate these words together and find the pair between the triad of words, or something like that?" And they found that they were able to do it quicker under the influence of THC than when they were sober. So, research showed you are actually more creative. It's not just a subjective experience for me, like just thing going on in the brain.

0:15:48 PA: And so what would that mean for language learning specific to what you've discovered through your own language learning process or specific to how you're teaching or creating the methodology at the Mimic Method?

0:15:57 IN: Yes. So, for speaking language, I actually don't find marijuana that useful. If I'm high, just the activity of speak a bunch of languages, it's weird, but I can freestyle in different languages way better when I'm high when it comes to conversations. Just because conversations is complicated in general when I'm too high, 'cause it's trying to understand people's motives and all that kind of stuff not ideal. But when it comes to coming up with new ideas for ways to teach people language or new ideas to motivate people to learn languages, it becomes pretty heavy for me.

0:16:29 IN: So, I try to do it out of routine, to do it once a week or so, even increasingly more recently. But once again, not doing a cartoon way I know most people do or just, "Oh, we just smoke weed and veg out. For me, weed really excites me, really gives me a lot ideas, and I don't wanna waste the experience. So, I'll sit down with my major business problems and smoke a little bit, look at them, put some music on, and just getting this on and come up with some stuff. There's a lot of things right now that people are spending money, like products people spending money on in our company and getting value out of that originated from a high experience I had.

0:17:07 PA: Exactly.

0:17:08 IN: I wanna write it off from my taxes someday if it's possible, as an expense.

[chuckle]

0:17:10 PA: Well, I like bottle vaporizer and I'm definitely gonna write that off as a business expense.

0:17:14 IN: Yeah. It's very... Here in California, I guess they...

0:17:17 PA: It's like supplies and materials or whatever for the creative breakthroughs.

0:17:20 IN: That's right, man. Productivity.

0:17:21 PA: Yeah, exactly. I wanna dig into a couple of points that you're making. What I wanna speak to what you're saying from the psychedelic space in a way, I think there are some people in the psychedelic space, especially because it tends to... The narrative tends to drive more towards research and academia, idealism even, that people see this idea of using marijuana for productivity or using microdosing for creativity as being a somewhat negative thing because they're like, "Oh, you're just fitting within the capitalist system and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And what I wanna make with your point and your distinction is you really, obviously, you love the work that you do. You're very invested in the work that you do. You believe that what you're doing at the Mimic Method, it helps to break down barriers and to connect people so that we can have a more cohesive integrated society. Would you say that's semi-accurate or I'm kinda hitting that...

0:18:11 IN: That's 100% accurate. And for me, personally, I don't really make a distinction between the spiritual and productive...

0:18:17 PA: Exactly.

0:18:17 IN: Benefits of these substances because for me, the overarching mission for my own personal development with these things is one of the tools in my arsenal for stripping away and transcending my ego. And I find through, after years of doing these things, not just the substance, but meditation and self-reflection and challenging myself in different areas, that the more I peel these things away, the more creative I become, and also the more loving and compassionate I become. And when you combine creativity with love and compassion, I make better products and solutions for more people, and one upside of that is economic return. Getting paid for these things to reinvest in doing more products and putting my vision out there into the world.

0:19:02 IN: So, yeah, for me, there is... The line between the two is really blurred. I'm not sitting here just to make money for my boss or crank out a bunch of things to scam some people out of money like, "Oh, it's a new way to scam people." No, it's all one holistic approach for me.

0:19:16 PA: Right. This is what I talked about as well. It's this aspect of social entrepreneurship with the online language school that I ran before Third Wave. It was never about the money. I wanted enough to be able to provide for myself so that I could be independent of government or that I could be independent of a boss or independent of an employee structure, but it was...

0:19:35 PA: We live very similar lifestyles. We hack credit cards for free flights all over the world. So, we take advantage of the banking system, which is pretty fucking corrupt as it is, especially in the United States. We get free miles, we travel all over, and we live pretty low-income lifestyles. It's not like when we're in Lisbon, we're going out to 60-euro dinners a night. It's like we're having a really nice meal for 10 euros. We're spending maybe a couple thousand euros a month on our own living cost and we're putting everything else into our businesses or non-profits or whatever that might be.

0:20:08 PA: And I think it seems like that's where more and more even higher end business people are going, where there's this really thorough understanding that money is not a very good indicator for success and that we can use money as a tool to help change the system that we're working within from an inside-out perspective. Do you know what I mean by that?

0:20:29 IN: Exactly, yeah. I discovered the concept of non-materialism when I was 16. And I've been practicing it ever since. Our company is growing very fast, and I do very well for myself, but I still don't own more than I can fit in my carry-on luggage and I do that purposely because these things get in the way of what really matters, and I always remind myself the only thing that matters is my mind, my body, and the minds and bodies of the people I care about and in the greater community. So, any money I make, it's either if it's not being invested in the company and the projects and the things I wanna put out there, anything put into myself, beyond, it is really just about improving my mind and body.

0:21:09 IN: So I'm never gonna own a car, I'm never gonna own like a bunch of fancy material things. As I increase the amount of money I spend on myself, it's going into things like health or these substances and the quality of them, and my own education and learning and joining other communities and stuff like that. And yeah, it really is the only game worthwhile of playing and making yourself and other people better and happier, and more loving and creative.

0:21:35 PA: Yeah, exactly, I think the end goal is starting to change, if there even is an end goal or an end objective. I think we have been living in a world for so long, where it's like, money and retirement was supposed to be the end goal, and people are not realizing that that might be a bit of a false narrative.

0:21:48 IN: Exactly.

0:21:48 PA: That we have look for something beyond materialism. I mean, we were just talking about this earlier in the conversation. I think mystical experiences are going to become trendy, to some degree, and I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing, I think it's probably more good than bad if people are seeking for some level of connection, or enlightenment or whatever it might be, but I think that will ultimately, there will be things around having these peak experiences that signify happiness, and joy and contentment and purpose and meaning, and like you said, you see spirit as being a part of your work. You don't separate the two from one another. And I also see that as being like a growing trend, and growing movement. With freelancers, and digital nomads or entrepreneurs like ourselves, or even people who are more "serious entrepreneurs", people want to enjoy the work that they're doing. They don't want to feel like they need to separate things, they wanna access these states of creativity that you're talking about, these flow states, on a consistent basis as much as possible.

0:22:45 IN: Exactly, I mean look, the calculus is pretty simple. The equation is pretty simple. It's just. If you're doing meaningful work with people, who you have meaningful relationships with, then you're pretty golden. That's usually what it comes down to when it comes to living a good life, and everything else is either playing into that or taking away from it.

0:23:04 PA: I think that's a really, really good way to simplify it, is doing meaningful work with people you care about. And this is even what I'm looking at doing, Third Wave, and you're probably doing something similar with mimic method, and as you're continuing to grow is, I'm not just building a team, so to say, but I'm also like, I'd like to build a family of sorts.

0:23:22 IN: Exactly.

0:23:22 PA: I think the definition of family is changing, and I'd like to create a community of people who see in similar ways and can build something for the future together, that's sustainable, and that's helpful for others, and that also draws on people's strengths, in a way that's productive and conducive to the health of the community or the health of the relationship or whatever that might be.

0:23:49 IN: Exactly.

0:23:50 PA: So, cannabis. Now, we talked about language, we talked about cannabis, how do psychedelics, then, enter the picture?

0:23:56 IN: Yeah, so I have way less experience with this, but it's been a, kind of, passion project of mine. Recently, the first time I did a psychedelic was January of this year. I was in Australia, and I went out to, like, the Outback, you know, the kangaroos, and the desert, and took some LSD for the first time. And yeah, it was a great experience. I was looking forward to taking it for a while, and the only reason it took me so long was just because I really, like, don't like the process, finding... You know, illicit drugs. This idea of not really knowing what I'm dealing with, and, like, going to shady alleyways, it just frustrates me to no end. I made a joke last night about, like, just imagine you're eating tomatoes, and you wanna use some tomatoes for your pasta, but for whatever stupid reason tomatoes are illegal in your country so you have to, like, go out into the street and find, like, some shady dude, selling tomatoes at like 20 Euros a tomato. And then you bring it back, and it's like, it's not even a tomato it's like a red pepper, like goddammit.

[laughter]

0:24:56 IN: And then you call your friend up like "Hey man, he has some really good tomatoes, you know, who's your tomato dealer", and he's like, "Oh no, I can't tell you who, he doesn't want people to know who he is." It's just stupid and frustrating, it pisses me off to no end, so I can't be bothered with it. So, fortunately, I have friends who are more persistent in these areas who had procured some for me, so I went out with a friend to the Outback and did some acid. And that was great. You know, I think a lot of people who're doing psychedelics for the first time, there's that fear that you'll, like, lose your mind, or have some crazy experience, but just where I'm at in my life and just the research I'd done, it's like the chances, I just look at it mathematically, and, I'm like, if I go crazy and something irreversible happens to me as a result of this, then I will represent 0.001% of the population of people who've, like, done this drug.

0:25:46 IN: And, like, I don't know, I've always identified myself as a pretty even-keeled and, like kind of, go with the flow kind of person. I really think that's an unlikely scenario, so, going in with that mindset, just being ready to go for the ride wherever it takes me, I think was the main reason why I had such a positive experience. And it's funny 'cause the person I was with, she was doing it her first time as well, and she had a negative experience, and she was a little bit more anxious. She came in with that kind of mindset, and she kind of had a panic attack, as a result, but I was able to, kind of like, walk her through it, and help her go through it, despite the fact that I was... I took a lot of acid, I was like, really high, like seeing stuff, but, once again, just being comfortable with the experience and letting it happen to you.

0:26:32 IN: I was able to, kind of like, bring her into that energy myself, and then she ended up having a pleasant, and kind of mind-opening, experience. The next day she, like, had a lot of realizations about herself and was feeling really good. So yeah, it was great. And I've done it maybe two more times since then, and I've also been micro-dosing, trying to get into a good micro-dosing routine once a week or twice a week as well, and each time I do that, it's a really interesting experience because all the things that I most care about being better at, mainly, just being more compassionate, more creative, and more focused, those things are all enhanced on a micro-dose with no apparent downside. It's not like... And economically, it's like, a micro dose is like 50 cents. I'm like this is...

[overlapping conversation]

0:27:16 PA: Exactly, it's amazing.

0:27:19 S4: Really, there's no reason why I can't do this. But... It seems like a built-in anti-addiction mechanism in it because you can't do it twice in a row because you build tolerance really fast, so I'm like this is literally the limitless pill in that movie. [chuckle] So yeah, I'm experimenting with that recently. And I also have some shrooms at my disposal that I'm gonna probably try out this weekend for the first time. I tried some before, but I'm not sure what happened, but it was edible, and I had a big meal before, and it just felt like a micro-dose. I was expecting a proper experience, but I'll just do... I'll just titrate up a little bit more next time.

0:27:58 PA: Let's talk about that LSD experience that you had in the outback. We don't necessarily have to talk about the trip itself, but did you have any sort of insights during the trip or after the trip that were unique or you thought "Oh, I hadn't thought of it that way before"... Anything like that going on with your trip.

0:28:14 IN: Yeah, so I have a lot experience with cannabis. So that's my main point of comparison when I look at these things. It's really interesting 'cause there are a lot things I can't do on marijuana. Whereas, with LSD, even when I had a lot in my system and had a lot of this really intense experience, I could pretty much do anything I wanted to do. For example, when my friend had a panic attack, even though I was in this crazy world of ideas and thoughts and sensations, I was able to kind of bring myself down and ground reality and handle the situation practically.

0:28:47 IN: I'm not sure that's a common experience, but for me, I think I maybe have more comfort with this experience with this state of mind than the average person does, and the main theme or the word that comes in mind with LSD, all the times I've done it, is meta. And it's difficult for me to describe, but basically, we live in a world of a bunch of stories, right? And the stories of the United States of America and the story of money and the story of these things. This is a concept that they talk about in the book Sapiens by Yuval Harari, of just these fictions that society is built on, and you kinda just, over time, buy into them. They seem as real to you as objective reality. But when I take LSD, it just kind of pops me out of it, and I'm looking at all these types of systems and I could just see them very, very clearly.

0:29:42 IN: And yeah, so it must not make any sense to someone who has never done it before, and listening, but you just get extreme perspective on all these kind of systems that are made up and stories that people tell each other inter-subjectively on your own stories. That's why I think it leads to ego disillusion because you get to take a step out of yourself and say, like, "Oh wait. What's the story I'm telling myself about how I have to do successful entrepreneur. Where did that come from?"

0:30:05 IN: Just questioning things again, which I always find useful. I think perspective is the most important thing for me to pursue. That's been the main theme, so far, of the times that I've done it just really getting perspective on things and not taking stories seriously. One funny anecdote to demonstrate that was I think the reason why people prefer to do LSD in nature, I know I definitely prefer to do it in nature, is because in nature, there's way fewer stories. These monkeys and squirrels and kangaroos aren't sitting there politicking and talking about different stupid human problems. They're just eating and pooping and wandering around and existing in the universality. You just feel really naturally in that environment.

0:30:45 IN: But at one time, at one point during the trip, we drive to go to, or a friend drives us to go to a supermarket and get some food, and I walk into the supermarket, this standard kind of Western supermarket and I just got blasted with sensation. They were playing, like, three pop songs at once. There's cash registers, and people talking. Everyone was really out of shape, and fat, and just color. And they were just, I don't know. It was just so unnatural. And I remember I walked up to... I was hungry. And I walked up to the basket of almonds, no no, of cashews, and they had the little scooper thing.

0:31:22 IN: It's a giant basket of cashews and I'm just sitting there scooping it and everything in my human animal DNA was just like, "You just discovered a bounty of carbohydrates. You need to eat this now." But I'm like, but I can't because there's this thing called rules in front of me that aren't real but is stopping me from eating these cashews. And I gotta make sense of it, it's just so weird and bizarre and I was like, "I gotta get out of here. You buy these cashews. I'm gonna go and just wait in the parking lot."

[laughter]

0:31:51 PA: Things get overly complicated when you're on LSD and in a tight environment, right?

0:31:56 IN: And I've heard people talk about that for money too... You just can't really understand the concept of money when you're on these things. Another interesting experience I've had, maybe you've had this 'cause the girl I was with had this as well, is that eating really processed food, food that didn't directly come from the ground or from the earth, just tastes weird.

0:32:16 IN: So, I ate... We got this chocolate bar and I was eating it, and like I felt like I can taste all the steps in manufacturing between getting the cacao beans to making that product. And I was like, "Ugh," it just tasted like plastic. Meanwhile, I ate some kind of fruit, and the fruit was delicious, and I can taste the beauty of it. And also my visuals, I found I only hallucinated and visualized things that were organic, so when I looked at my friend's skin, I could see her veins moving and throbbing, and when I looked at a cereal box, which I expected to be the more hallucinogenic thing, because it's very colorful, I didn't see anything. That was another interesting feature of my trip. I have no idea how universal that is.

0:32:56 PA: I mean, I get the sense that with LSD, that's somewhat universal. Or at least, I think that because it reflects my own first experiences. I basically tripped out for the first time when I was 19. And I've talked about this a little bit in another podcast, but I did it on the beach in Michigan, like in early summer, late spring, early summer, and then I did it a few weeks later, and on safari in Tanzania. And it was that similar type of feel that you're saying where, for me at least, it was understanding this flow of energy that happens from the sun to the earth to the animals to what we eat. And anything that was man-made that interrupted that process, I found to be very much like a turn-off and something that I didn't wanna be involved with.

0:33:38 IN: Yeah, it's intrusive.

0:33:40 PA: Exactly, it was like I wanted... So I remember thinking, "Oh this is why, for example, people in the 60s were doing a bunch of LSD. That's what kind of kick started the green movement, and that's what kick-started this aspect of wanting to be vegetarian, because they didn't wanna eat these foods that had been influenced in such a way by man, because they have these really impactful experiences when they were tripping on LSD, basically. And I had that same experience. I think the best part of an LSD trip is the come down, like you take it...

0:34:11 IN: Yeah. Sure.

0:34:11 PA: It starts to come on and you start to giggle. I've vomited before. You start to have these really intense visuals that happens for maybe four or five hours, and then once it settles in, you're kinda on the come down. And I found, just eating an orange, like a really good ripe orange, right?

0:34:27 IN: Yeah, orange is the best.

0:34:28 PA: When you're doing that, there's nothing better in the world.

[chuckle]

0:34:31 IN: Nothing better in the world.

0:34:33 PA: At all. It feels so natural, and it feels so... Even though it's not. It's like orange in itself is a fruit, is a total Frankenstein, it's more or less a Frankenstein man-made fruit. At the same time though, it does feel natural, it does feel organic. And I think it goes back to this getting in touch with this flow of energy that we perceive and when we put ourselves in the midst of that, we come to realize, like you're saying back to the cannabis, like in our brain. It kind of flattens the hierarchy in a way. This seems to also happen with LSD, where it almost makes us feel more egalitarian, more connected, more universal.

0:35:06 IN: Exactly. And for anyone who it doesn't... You get skeptical at that type of languages, connectedness and universality. Another way you can maybe look at it is, once again, I've been really focusing recently on this idea of the stories we tell each other and tell ourselves, our idea of self is a story we tell ourself. And then these drugs make you just kind of break that down. And I think we, in our society, as a super complex human society of all these stories stacked upon story stack upon stories, and there must be some certain part of the brain that's in charge of managing that. When you see someone just really just go insane because they got a parking ticket or they're stuck in traffic and just the reaction they have to the environment of no actual physical threat, it says if they're about to get killed by a tiger, when in reality, they're just into a very annoying situation, that kind of responds to a fiction, to an idea like that strong.

0:36:08 IN: There might be some part of the brain that governs that gets turned down when these substances are introduced into your biochemistry, and as a result, you come down to the ground level, and you're like, Oh really. What's really going on is, I have these oranges and these kangaroos and... Oh shit, there's a tiger, I need to get out of the way, but hey, a tiger's made of the same cells I'm made. You start to get into these ground level truths and being able to see them more clearly is a very... I think that's why it's a therapeutic thing for people who get so anxious and depressed and identify so strongly with whatever bullshit story they're telling themselves. And then you take the substance, and boom, pop out of it and realize how bullshit it actually is, and then you eat the orange for the first time, really in a long time. Oh yeah, like, I need to chill out.

0:36:54 PA: Yeah.

0:36:55 IN: Go hang out in nature more and yeah, maybe nature, being in nature sober, it does that to you.

0:37:00 PA: Yeah, it helps you disconnect and it kinda helps you realize that, yeah, like you're saying, the story, this facade of civilization that we're living in is something that can be transcended or that we can step out of if want we can disconnect from, and that, I think, even living in cities or places where there's a lot of people, there's this sense of pressure or sense of responsibility or this weight of life that comes down on us and when we take LSD or other psychedelics or when we, like you said, just even spend time out in nature, it's like, it gives us a chance to just really disconnect and unwind and come to realize that life doesn't need to be so serious, that we can...

0:37:37 IN: Exactly, and when you come out of it, it gets back to our original conversation about actually doing work that matters and helping people when these types of experiences lift you out of the labyrinth of stories and bullshit ideas that you've been kind of brainwashed into, and you look down on the system, it gives you great power and opportunity to alter your position within that system. You and I talk about how we can step out, look at the system of how credit cards and banks and frequent flyer miles work, and then use it to our advantage, but also gives you a look at other systems like, "Oh these people are trapped in this system. If I give them this type of information or this type of education, then they can come out of whatever slump that they're in.

0:38:21 IN: So it's not to say... I think one major fear people have of taking these things is... Oh, well, if I step outside of civilization, and recognize it's a facade, then I'll just be a hermit going and living in the mountains my whole life and drop all my ambitions. And it's not true. Like we said before, my spirituality, and my ambition and my creativity are all tied together. When I come out of these situations, one major thing I got from that first LSD trip is just like looking down like, "Oh this is how things are. And now I have a clear idea of how things are, I can come up with more effective ways to change the way things are, and more effectively help people within the system. Does that make sense?

0:38:55 PA: It's like what you're doing with the language learning thing. You realized that there was something that was broken that these huge language learning companies like Rosetta Stone or even ones before that, Berlitz, whatever they were, they were doing something that wasn't working. And people would often get stuck within that system, new language learners will get stuck within that system, or even experienced language learners will get stuck within that system. And they would feel frustrated, they would feel like they couldn't really speak like they wanted to speak. They couldn't really connect with other people like they wanted to connect. And you identified that, and then you said, "Well, let's build a new system so that we can actually facilitate that, those insights, and that learning for people from a language perspective.

0:39:34 PA: And I think that's something similar to what we're doing here is we're trying to re-analyze perspectives on psychedelics and look at, okay, for example, from a mental health perspective, people have been working within a failed system for a long time when it comes to mental health, with...

0:39:50 IN: Yeah.

0:39:50 PA: Pharmaceuticals and with other types of treatment that just aren't effective. And I think now, we can look at, Oh, there are actually ways based in science and evidence that are much more effective. However, this is something that I emphasize again and again, science and research alone won't get us there, because science and research don't change hearts and minds. We have to look at ways okay, we have this information, we have this knowledge. How do we get people to actually change what they're doing to take advantage of it?

0:40:17 IN: Exactly.

0:40:17 PA: And I think that is a question that's been avoided for a long time specific in the psychedelic space because it's an intangible. With research and science, we can really measure it. We know, Oh yes, we're making progress. It's a measurable, it's easy. With an intangible, ultimately, the impact is greater and it's going to have a greater and wider impact when you can get more and more people doing these things.

0:40:41 PA: But human behavior and social psychology is a lot messier, and you're dealing with a lot more unknowns and if you can navigate those in such a way where you can then, as we're saying, make this process of transition easier for others, then you've tapped into something. You tap into something that's gold, but it's difficult to do, and I think it's intimidating for people to try to take on so they stick to easier things, I think, things that are more manageable in a way.

0:41:06 IN: Exactly. Yeah. And I actually just made a video about this recently for a new position we're hiring for. It is discussing my values and it really is captured by this whole conversation with the stuff where the four values for myself and the company are in this order: Truth, growth, compassion, and education. And the idea here is like, so you got this, you take some LSD here or do LSD experiences, and you get a greater objectivity. You step outside the system, look down on it and discover more of the truth. With that truth, you can improve yourself and grow yourself, transcend your ego and improve creativity. But what comes along with that experience is an increase in compassion.

0:41:45 IN: When you strip away your own bullshit story, you start being stuck in your own head and feeling sorry for yourself. And then looking at other people more clearly and with a more loving eye and they say, "Oh, man. I have this sincere desire to help these people now after the compassion comes in." And then you think, what's the best way I can help them? I could buy them a car but that's not gonna help them. Really, what they need is to discover truth for their own and grow with that truth on their own. And then maybe even take that growth experience and then find the compassion to educate others." So that's where education comes in. So it's kinda like this virtual cycle that all my work is really grounded in trying to propagate that cycle as much as I do, as I can, before we part this Earth.

0:42:29 PA: And I think in a sense then, we come back to this ability to facilitate ego dissolution and we look at ways for people to transcend their ego and get beyond the ego. And we both read this book "Stealing Fire" by Steven Kotler.

0:42:42 IN: Yes.

0:42:44 PA: Which talks about some of those ways that, that groups of people or individuals have used well, psychedelics, but also various other means to transcend the ego because as you're saying, people I think, now more than ever, they're thirsty for spirituality. They're craving some sense of truth, some sense of deeper understanding because I think a lot of people are waking up to the fact that we've been fed this kind of superficial materialistic lifestyle for so long. And as a result of that, we're really missing something central to the human experience. And it's only by reconnecting with the source, so to say, or reconnecting like, what you're saying, with our community by different aspects of ego dissolution that we can come to like an objective truth and understanding of what we want.

0:43:29 PA: Like you're saying, you're facilitating these insights for people so they can come to their own truth and then once they come to their own truth, if they have principles that are grounded in compassion and love and understanding, then that it's like a natural process of evolution where communities by themselves just become better and better places that people wanna spend time.

0:43:48 IN: Exactly. And I don't think it's coincidence that research shows that many of these substances don't just increase just your objective outlook on things and not being so biased towards things, but also increases your levels of compassion. And they seem unrelated, but I don't think they are. I think they're part the same positive appearance of certain truth to compassion. And yeah, so that's why these things are really interesting to me way more than just something to do for fun on a Saturday.

0:44:18 PA: Yeah, exactly. Well, let's ramp up with that. Where do you think, whether for you personally or just generally, where do you think psychedelics and cannabis and these altered states of consciousness are going to lead in the next five or 10 years? 'Cause we talk about this. I obviously know that your strength is... I think we have similar strengths in that we like to envision future systems that we can work up to or build to facilitate these transitions. Where do you see these substances going in the next five or 10 years?

0:44:46 IN: Yeah, so... I guess, two parts, the personal and then the larger scale one. Personally, what I'm working towards more is being more precise and deliberate with these things. And I'm an experimentalist by nature and I wanna get my hands on more of these substances and try out different possibilities, not just to the substance itself, but I'm actually most interested in the other parts of the equation, like set and setting and just seeing...

0:45:12 IN: Obviously, I discovered just a few months ago actually that marijuana is really useful for me for physical working out, like physical exercise. So I used to just hate stretching my hamstring just the worst feeling ever, and then I discovered that if I did it high, it feels amazing. So I'm like, "Just a couple of tokes and do some yoga," and now I'm way more flexible as a result of this. And I'm thinking like, "Hmm, what are some other, besides a different set and setting?" Usually, the set and setting for me was create just creativity or music. Now, the set and setting is going to a park and toking up a little bit and doing handstands and stretches and moving around like an animal.

0:45:50 IN: So there's just infinite possibilities and combinations of drug amount, drug combination, of set and setting that I personally wanna experiment with myself to optimize my own personal goals. And then, once again, I discovered that truth use it to grow myself. I'm really curious and excited to see as these things get legalized and taboo finally starts to kind of melt way. Other people come into the space and invent new ways to use these tools and new sets and settings and retreats and communities and other ways to use these things more creatively.

0:46:25 IN: At the end of the day, I've always been really into creativity, especially, collaborative creativity. So that's what I'm most excited about is just seeing how different people come together and use these things in ways that are way more creative and just going to a techno rave and getting so messed up, you don't even know who you are anymore. That stuff doesn't interest me, but these activities for creativity and spiritual growth and physical improvement, I think it's a huge potential there. Now that, especially, that these things are starting to be more accepted both commercially and socially.

0:46:55 PA: Cool. And last question that I have to ask is, where does the name Idahosa come from?

0:47:01 IN: It's funny. I had a whole rant on this in that first LSD trip.

0:47:05 PA: Awesome.

0:47:07 IN: But, with the girl I was with. So my mom is Nigerian and in her home, in her native language of Edo, all the names are like sentences. So actually, my name is three words, is I Daho Osa, which means I listen to God. It was just interesting 'cause I was reading a book called Gödel, Escher, and Bach. That's how I always start my LSD trips, usually, I just start reading a couple of chapters of that 'cause it's really deep book and there is this whole section on... I can't get into it. It's just way too deep... But this whole section on just the concept of truth and Scott and all kind of stuff, and yeah.

0:47:42 IN: So it was kind of ironic name 'cause I'm not a very... I'm not at all a really religious person but I've come to realize that doing these activities and just, I'm a truth seeker at the end of the day. So I kinda see my role, my position in society, is to be the person to plug into the ether and put my ear to the ground and see if I can hear what the truth is telling us. So yeah, that's what my name means.

0:48:08 PA: Cool, cool, any last words or any last things that you wanted to add in terms of psychedelics or what you're doing or anything else?

0:48:15 IN: I guess to people who have not tried these things yet. I really wanna encourage you. That's why I'm doing this podcast episode and I was a bit hesitant to come out of the closet on this stuff at first, but I decided that, and one reason I would be hesitant is because there's a lot of people who have negative prejudices against these things. But in, generally speaking, are open-minded people, they just came from a similar background as me and associate these things to dead-beats or something like that. So just look at people who are successful or have similar values to you and then talk to them about their experience, if they've tried this.

0:48:53 IN: And then also remember that if you started small and focused on set and setting and do your necessary research, the chances of something extremely bad happening to you are so infinitesimal. You take more of a risk getting in a car every day and driving to work than you do doing a micro dose of LSD. Just the category of difference, mathematically, in terms of your physical risk with usual activities has many factors, basically infinite. Because I'm pretty sure no one ever died from micro dose, whereas hundreds of thousand of people die every year from car accidents, right?

0:49:26 IN: So if you just look at things objectively and mathematically, I just find that so many people don't try these things, either 'cause they haven't really thought through the risk and it seems way more overblown in their mind, or because they don't know people they respect who do these things. So that's why I came on this podcast, hopefully people respect my opinion and where I'm coming from and then they will be more encouraged to try this stuff out.

0:49:48 PA: For sure. Well, thanks for coming on, Idahosa, and telling your story and telling us about the Mimic method and maybe you can ask the guy who's been coughing behind you if he can politely shut the fuck up. I don't know what his deal is.

[laughter]

0:50:04 IN: I will slip some acid into his coffee.

0:50:07 PA: There you go.

0:50:09 IN: Just give him the treat and try not to cough on a podcast.

0:50:11 PA: There you go, yeah, yeah, maybe next time. Well here's some compassion for you in a drop.

[music]<p>
0:50:33 PA: Okay, great, another excellent podcast. If you enjoyed it, please leave a review on iTunes for us as any and all reviews will help us to continue to spread the message about responsible psychedelic use and the importance of de-stigmatizing these substances so more people have access to them. And of course, we're back with our weekly segment, This Week in Psychedelics. Now, I am recording this like I told you, before from San Francisco. It's also a Bicycle Day, which I forgot to mention, so it's April 19 today as I'm recording. This is the day that Albert Hoffman first tripped on LSD and he proceeded to basically ride his bicycle home from his office to his countryside village in 1943 on 215 micrograms of LSD. Wow. Can you imagine just riding a bike on 250 micrograms of LSD? That would be insane.

0:51:21 PA: So yeah, it's Bicycle Day, guys. And we have a pretty killer This Week in Psychedelics segment for you 'cause there's been a lot of shit that's been going on in the psychedelic space. As I already mentioned, the MAPS Psychedelic Science 2017 Conference is going on right now, where it was this past weekend April 21-23. We live streamed the initial research on micro dosing so if you want a link to that, please check out our page and you can see the live stream of the initial research results for micro dosing. It's exciting, it's interesting. Since I'm recording this on April 19, I don't know what they are yet, but they're gonna be exciting and interesting anyway so go ahead and make sure you check that out.

0:51:58 PA: In other announcements. Dr. Bronner's, the organic soap maker, has pledged 5 million dollars to MAPS, to make MDMA into an FDA-approved medicine to treat PTSD. I'll read you the first paragraph of the press release and if you guys want more information, you are of course free to check it out: On the eve of the Psychedelics Science 2017 Conference, being held in Oakland, Dr. Bronner's, a family-owned maker of the top selling natural brand of soap in North America, has announced it will donate 1 million dollars per year, over the next five years to the non-profit Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies aka MAPS. The gift comes after MAPS was given the go-ahead by the US Food and Drug Administration to begin phase three drug trials of MDMA assisted psychotherapy for people with treatment-resistant posttraumatic stress disorder aka PTSD.

0:52:49 PA: That's exciting news. It's just phenomenal news, as I believe, one of the many ways that psychedelic substances or elicit substances, 'cause MDMA is more of an entactogen than a psychedelic. One of the many ways that we can de-stigmatize these is by making them available for medical use because that helps people to become comfortable with them. Now, I don't believe that's the only way, I believe we need to explore multiple avenues and options, but it's definitely one of the best ways to explore it. What's next? So Jason Silva, this dude is pretty cool, he's pretty interesting. He has hosted the TV show Brain Games on Nat Geo. He just put up an important new video about mystical experiences induced by psychedelics.

0:53:33 PA: And I would highly recommend checking out the video, it's pretty fucking cool. Basically, it's about how mystical experiences induced by psychedelics can predict long-term positive changes in attitude, mood, behavior, and spirituality in patients. A group of scientists at prestigious research institutions like NYU, and Johns Hopkins as well as the Imperial College of London are conducting studies with psilocybin, MDMA and LSD which induce mystical-type experiences and this helps to treat end-of-life distressed alcohol and drug addiction as well as PTSD. And the video that Jason created explains the nature of the mystical experience and like all things related to Jason, it's entertaining, engaging and informative.

0:54:16 PA: So please take a few minutes. It's a three and a half-minute long video, and check it out, I think you'll really like it. Other announcement, again today, April 19, Bicycle Day. There was an important study that was released that showed that psychedelic drugs induced heightened states of consciousness based on brain scans, which again, while we already knew that, but now we have the neural imaging studies to back it up. Basically it says that the study records what appears to be the first evidence for mind-opening state experienced by users of LSD, ketamine and psilocybin. So great. We have science telling us something that most of us already knew.

0:54:54 PA: Of course, it helps to have objective validation of the subjective experience. Basically, what the brain scans show is that people who are on these psychedelic substances have a heightened state of consciousness, and those who received LSD, ketamine or psilocybin were found to have more random brain activity than normal while under the influence. Basically what that means is that the shift in brain activities is accompanied by a host of peculiar sensations that the participants said range from floating and finding inner peace to distortions in time and a conviction that the self was disintegrating. In order to understand this, researchers measured the activity of neurons in people's brains as these substances took hold. Similar measurements have shown that when people are asleep or under anesthetic, their neurons tend to fire in a more predictable way than when they are awake.

0:55:43 PA: Now, one issue that I will take note of in this article which I'm reading on the Guardian, and will provide the link, is one of the premier researchers, Robin Carhart-Harris, who is the head researcher at Imperial College, basically denigrated the mystical experience, which I find to be concerning, and it's very likely that the journalist who wrote this piece probably took his quote out of context. At the same time, I think it's important to remember that the mystical experience, aka non-dual states, have been around much longer than science has, and will be around much longer than science will be, and that we understand that non-dual states and these mystical experiences are critical in terms of understanding the relationship between science and spirituality.

0:56:30 PA: And anyone who believes that we live in a purely materialist, rationalist, reductionist world might wanna reconsider your approach. And I think this is one concern that I have with the overwhelming narrative in the psychedelic space of being on science is that we lose this understanding of aspect of it's primitive wisdom that we've come to discover and understand from psychedelic states. Mystical states are not nonsense. Mystical states are something that can be understood, or something that have been written about, and I think someone like Aldous Huxley, who was a mystic and who was also a forerunner of the psychedelic movement in the '60s, would be rolling in his grave right now if he heard the quote that higher states of consciousness are mystical nonsense.

0:57:17 PA: We don't necessarily need to demystify the mystical experience, because the only way and the only place that that eventually goes is into String Theory, and as anyone who has studied String Theory will tell you, strings, the smallest things that we supposedly understand are active by vibrations, and as they're vibrating they create movement and other things. So while it's important to show, yes, the physiological and biological underpinnings, be cautious about reducing it down and calling mystical states non-sense.

0:57:52 PA: So that's that. We'll provide a link to that in the copy below. Last little announcement, researchers at NYU are seeking to interview experienced users and dealers of new psychoactive substances. Basically, they wanna hear about the use and effects of new psychoactive drugs including things like MBOami, 2CI, Foxy, Benzo fury, BZP, meow meow, I did not know there was a drug called meow meow, that's a pretty fucking cool. AMT and MXC. Basically, it says, "Do you use any new drugs to get high? Do you sell new drugs to other people?" New York University, Langone Medical Center is seeking people to participate in a research study which will gather information on how to prevent harm in those who use new synthetic drugs.

0:58:35 PA: This is a university research study and we have no affiliation with law enforcement. They're interested in hearing from you if you're between the ages of 18 and 35, and if you have a lot of familiarity with and/or experience using or selling any of these drugs, or any other new drugs not mentioned above or you are a party or festival promoter or a pill tester who knows a lot about use of new drugs in the scene. If you're eligible you'll be asked to participate in a one hour interview and you will be compensated $50 in cash for your time. No identifying information would be collected and all information will be kept completely confidential.

0:59:10 PA: The interviews will take place at an NYU office. In certain circumstances, the interview can be conducted over the telephone. So go ahead and check that out if you're interested. That's gonna wrap up this week in psychedelics, as always, please leave us a review on iTunes and donate to our Patreon page. We'd appreciate your financial contributions and support. Because as much as I love talking about psychedelics, I still have to eat food and eating food is nice. Having food in my stomach is nice. And unfortunately, the only way I can do that is by having money to do it. So please support us, it would mean a lot, and enjoy the rest of your weekend, day, whatever it is in your current place. Later.